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Excerpts:
What do you make of the fragile peace in PDP; the party NEC scheduled for last Tuesday was deadlocked and had to be delayed for forty eight hours?
Well, I think sometimes when things happen, you look back and look at the context in which it happened. I think that the fact that we didn’t have complete and utter chaos , is actually a good thing, because if you look at all the indexes , you can see that the atmosphere is very tense.
So, what I think we witnessed is just a reflection of the atmosphere we find ourselves. It is clear that the interest are very pronounced, the approach by various interest groups very diverse and one has to be very careful and prayerful, because it is a very tense time.
What you saw at NEC on Tuesday is sign of the time, a reflection of various groups and interest. It is unfortunate and avoidable.
Against the backdrop of issues at play and the personalities behind the power game, some are of the opinion that there is so much desperation on the part of the party presidential aspirants?
It is always good for leaders who are responsible to speak with facts.
I just think that one plus one, is two. But I will not say anything beyond that. I just feel that those people responsible for putting us in this position must look seriously at how they can get us out of it, because if this is just the beginning , one can only imagine where this would end.
It is important that we change the dynamics; it is important that we improve the dynamics. One minute, it is an attempt to change the rule, the next minute it is the resistance of that attempt. Of course, it is affecting the party and I think that what should happen now is a careful, introspective thought.
What is important is our country, what is important is integrity of individuals, because tomorrow somebody would look back and say, ‘’what did you do at a time like this? What was the role you played?’’
We hope that this is going to be resolved very quickly. I am glad that the outcome of Tuesday was that stakeholders are sitting round the table to discuss the way forward.
So, we are looking forward to a very peaceful resolution and a progressive statement and I sincerely hope that leaders of today have it in mind that tomorrow somebody is going to review their roles at times like this and I don’t want anybody to have a negative role bandied around their image.
I think that it is important that everybody behaves responsibly and I am optimistic that they will.
The perception is that the governors pulled the strings in PDP; that it is the resistance to their influence that is causing the ripples, threatening the peace in the party?
Well, abinitio … from the absence of a credible INEC chairman to the appointment of Professor Jega; from then really we are on a very steep path. It was an herculean struggle, first of all in terms of timing.
Don’t forget that the new person has to come to terms with the environment and navigate the waters which we call Nigerian election. It is a tough task.
So, the framework that he has to operate was critical. It seems a little awkward that now that with the very little time left, there is a change and movement of goal post. Without doubt, if this thing have happened sooner, may be we would not be in this kind of position.
But we didn’t. So, with this last minute dynamics going on, obviously it can lead to a lot of tension. But like I said, we just have to find the best way to get to the finish line with minimum disruption, because if we decide to do the disruption and create all sorts of scenario, ultimately what you have is chaos and we need to avoid that.
So, I think this is the time for people to be responsible, I think it is time for us to be very circumspect. I think it is time to ask ourselves what is really important. Nigeria is bigger than any of us and Nigeria has to move forward. So, ultimately it doesn’t matter who is on the seat what matters; what matters is that we are working sincerely.
So, I think it is an internal party problem think the internal party dynamics suggests they can resolve this problem. It isn’t about individual happiness, but collective happiness and I think Nigeria as a country has to come out of 2011 election better than it did in 2007.
Already there is that prediction about Nigeria and its break up. It isn’t completely far from reality. For me, it is important that we avoid intimidation, it is important that we become inclusive in what we are doing. We don’t want to drive away the electorate, we want to attract them.
Being the biggest party in Nigeria, whatever affects the PDP, some are of the opinion affects the entire polity. The intrigue, apprehension and the disaffection that have trailed the PDP NEC over party primary and guidelines speak volume on what we should expect in 2011 general election.
That if the party stalwarts want to outsmart and arm twist one another now, we shouldn’t expect any modicum of sanity at the general election?
Well, I understand, but I am careful not to make pronouncement when I don’t have the facts. Allegations are allegations. But I think
ultimately we have heard people speak. Atiku has said that he is comfortable with the ways things are and that he is also comfortable with the ways things have been proposed .
I haven’t heard President Jonathan position on this and I don’t know whether he is comfortable with the ways things are. It would be nice to hear his position on this. But let us think he wants to be somewhere in the middle and not make a comment . Ultimately, at some point he must realize that taking a position, publicly on this would help calm the polity . If he isn’t taking a position that’s different from his fellow competitor, Alhaji Atiku Abubakar, then obviously that would suggest a few things. But we would see.
But I think we are dealing with powerful people on either side of the hype so ultimately they must realise that the way forward isn’t about their interest, but the country interest and whatever is good for the country is what they should strive for; whatever is good for the party is what they should strive for.
But do you see the PDP going to the general election, particularly the presidential with a uniform voice?
Yes, there is the very likelihood of that; there are people who feel very strong in who the presidential candidate should be. There are even people who believe very strong on where the presidential candidate should come from. So, in the event that that’s not the case, there is no doubt that a significant number of people would opt for alternative route. There is no doubt about that and if anybody is painting a different picture, the person is not being honest.
So, if somebody emerges who doesn’t fit their expectations they would vote with their feet. It is inevitable. However, we would have seen that in previous elections, even primaries. So, it isn’t a new phenomenon but you are right in pointing out the fact that what we would see in January 2011 may be unrivalled in previous political history and I think without the shadow of a doubt we would see significant movement in that regards which gives democracy even possibly a better chance, because if some of these heavyweights are in alternative political parties, the political atmosphere without doubt wouldn’t be this tensed.
For me, as a democrat, who is sensitive about opposition I would say that wouldn’t be a bad thing; a party should live and die by its actions. PDP is obviously very big and it can accommodate a lot of intrigue. So, even if fifty percent of the membership leave, we still have a big party and if they leave they would not all go in one direction. So, who knows we would still remain the biggest party, but it is interesting that all these are happening and we look forward to January.
Would it be right to say that the south-south is an open field for the PDP presidential aspirants, in poaching for delegates?
No, Jonathan has an advantage in the south-south. I think anybody who looks very carefully at it would know that Nigeria is a very ethnic, very tribal country and people think along that line. So, I don’t subscribe to that school of thought but that is the school of thought that Nigerians subscribe to. I think there are two stages: the primary and the general election and I think in the general election, that tribal sentiments would probably be more played, be more significant.
But there is no doubt that even at the delegate stage you find that this sentiment would still play out, but I think to larger extent they would play out at primary and delegates stage. But to say that it would be just about issues, I think would be an understatement.
I think you would find the same in the North. Well, south west may be more issues based than anywhere but without doubt the tribal and ethnic sentiments would be played out and so in the south-south, Jonathan would have an edge.
But I must warn that this thinking and this tribal sentiments hasn’t got us anywhere. Part of the reasons why we are where we are is because of such sentiment. We must also understand that in a country like Nigeria with diverse ethnic sentiment we cannot conclude that where somebody comes from is the sole story behind what he does and what he doesn’t do. I think it is important that we look beyond just where you come from and also , look at the content of who you are and the sooner we get that clear, the better.
But in answering your question, Jonathan has an edge in the south-south. But how many delegates do we have in the south-south?
If you look at it very carefully you would see that… if you look at PDP as a party sixty- one percent of the delegates are from the North, therefore leaving the south-south, south- west and south- east with thirty nine percent.
So, if you are looking at it carefully, you would see that having an edge in the south-south isn’t enough. If Obama has relied on just the blacks to vote him in, he wouldn’t be president. Unfortunately for Jonathan, having an edge in the south-south isn’t enough. He needs to appeal to a large proportion of the North, the south -east and of course, the south- west. He needs a lot of friends in the other zones to make it happen. Yes, he has an edge in the south-south, but I think the basis under which he has that edge may not bring him favour elsewhere and he needs favour elsewhere.
But if you have that conviction that the south –south is there for keep by Jonathan, why are you backing Atiku?
There is no doubt that I believe that the thinking on sentiment is wrong. I even have an argument that even if I am going to consider sentiment, argument for sentiment would be against his candidature, because I would be arguing that we should allow the North to complete its tenure. I would be arguing that we allow the North to bring its credible best; I would be arguing the sentiment that we stick with agreement that we reached.
So, if I would argue on sentiment, I would argue along those lines. But since I wasn’t there when the agreement was reached and since I don’t know the details of it, I don’t want to even go down that road; I think I would leave it to the conscience of the people who engaged in it, but I would say that on the basis of competence and content, Atiku stands out ahead and shoulder above anybody else and so if I just want to look at it purely on the issue of merit, he has a very strong appeal.
So, whether I look at it from the traditional ethnic background; whether I look at it on the ground of competence, either way Atiku still comes out on top. So I am leaving the ethnic argument for others to make, I am making the issues based argument. It seems plausible to me that if there was an agreement reached by people who represented me and where I comes from, it would be decent that we honour such an agreement. But like I said, I would leave it to their consciences and I would allow them to be the judge of that.
On a final note; if you are to do a critique of the campaigns of the leading PDP presidential aspirants: Atiku and President Jonathan—- how issues based are they?
The thinking is that it has been an indulgence in name calling . Well, I have seen smear attempt on Atiku which have been nothing short of opportunistic and very weak. It isn’t issues based and that of course, is almost characteristic of our politics. I would like to see more issues based campaigns and I am happy that from the Atiku angle, he is really talking about the state-of –the-economy and I am waiting for the response. I presumed it would be coming, as we get closer and closer to the primary. I have no doubt that it is going to be more issues based. I don’t want to encourage the hurling of insults or pronouncing anybody guilty without trial.
Remember you asked me a few questions earlier and I said I have no evidence to that effect and I don’t want to make pronouncements without evidence and I think the leadership of tomorrow needs to be responsible and it needs to know that respect for the rule of law means that you don’t make judgment in the absence of judgment.
So, I believe the parties aren’t as issues based as they should be in their campaigns and I want to give Atiku Abubakar a lot of credit and I think clearly he is stating issues and I suspect that Jonathan in his 2011 budget presentation has offered high level direction that he would like to take this country down.
So, I would like him to take issues in that budget and follow it in his campaigns. A lot of them are issues on policy direction for our education, health sectors and issues of security. But I am still waiting to hear what his position on the Niger Delta is, because that is another area of interest that is of concern to me.
One of the major reasons I am not supporting Jonathan is because of his lack of commitment to the Niger Delta Technical Committee that was set up. If you look at the report of the Committee, you find some stark revelations.
Number one, the committee was submitted first before the Uwais report, before Power Reform Report yet both of those reports had gone to become substantive documents which are now being used to formulate major government policies. But the Niger Delta Technical Committee Report is gathering dusts.
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